be deposited on someone else's land. The main difference is that burning destroys the organic matter so it does not go towards balancing that taken out by cultivations. And of course the energy goes into heating the atmostphere instead of being slowly available to microbes. Farmers don't like incorporating straw as it is low in Nitrogen and initially acutally uses up soil N.

I tend to the belief that energy, except nuclear power, comes from the sun, and certainly animal shit isn't a very efficient storage medium, though dried it does burn well enough to cook with. I suppose there is a possibility that fusion products came from another sun, otherwise even our nuclear power plant's fuel came from the sun. AJH

Do you eat unrinsed dishes? Never. a) I can't stand the taste of washing up liquid in my coffee (no milk no sugar) b) they airdry better (teatowels spread bacteria)

Everything is finite,  and to pretend that a certain 'theological' form of agriculture is not,  is to be an ostritch.  In order to grow plants properly they must use part of a finite resource. The only way round this problem is for consumers of food to piss and shit on the land that the food came from,  and subsequently, when they die,  to get mulched into that land.  As this is both stupid and impractical,  all forms of agriculture will continue to utilise finite resourses of fertility :  including so called 'organic'. Why do you think I disagree with this? I apologise if I have misunderstood you.  Most advocates of organic systems believe that they are sustainable, and that there is no need to import fertility. Those people who know that one must import fertility,  say that the practice is fine,  so long as the bought-in fertility is organic in provenance.  OK,  so I buy-in dung from an organic farmer.  He is selling me stuff that he properly should be putting back on his land.  So where is he going to get his replacement fertility from ? Calcified seaweed ?  Fine.  So long as there are only a few farmers who wish to buy it.  Multiply the buyers from the present level times ten and they will not all get supplied. What then ?   All the best,

Have you or have you not, heard of any UK derogations? Yes,  I have. The answer you had from the SA was an answer that was for the consumption of an enquirer.  The SA are not going to reveal to a casual enquirer the extent of derogations that they may permit,  as,  you may imagine,  it would rather undermine their stance. Imagine you have forty acres of Savoy cabbages,  and you spot a   mealy aphid infestation in its early stages.  The cabbages are the best part of your year's income.  The aphids must be knocked on the head immediately or they will reproduce in your cabbages at a rate that will astound you,  and further,  they will take out the growing tip of the cabbages,  and _meta_phorically 'melt them'. Well,  not _meta_phorically,  that was the wrong term,  they will actually melt your cabbages so that you have nothing to sell. Soapy water,  I can assure you,  will not do the trick.  I think that mealy aphids actually thrive on that.  The cure is one application of  'Aphox' as soon as you notice the onset of the problem.  Not a prophyllactic spray,  but a curative one.  You may lose 5% of your cabbages,  but not 100%. So you are an organic farmer,  you have noticed the aphids and know the economic consequences of not dealing with them immediately,  and you phone the SA to tell them of the problem and ask them what is possible under their rules. Are they going to tell you to watch your crop getting destroyed ? Ask yourself !  They are promoters of organic produce.  They do not want disgruntled bankrupts. After they have given you a derogation to spray Aphox,  are they going to admit to that,  given their precepts ?  Are you,  as a producer,  going to admit to it,  given that your customers believe that your produce has never had any sort of unapproved spray directed on it ? If you are going to tell me that anyone who is growing 40 acres of cabbages should be growing a smaller acreage,  and be growing a diverse selection of crops to minimise the effects of pests,  then you are also telling me that organic agriculture is only,  at best, a local and not a mass producer of food for the populace. Ok for gardners and smallholders,  but not for mass-producers of food-stuffs.  There are just too many folk to feed,  most of whom live in conurbations. All the best,